We discuss Lifestyle becoming an award-winning magazine, and reflect on Disability Pride Month 2023. To celebrate 45 years of Motability, we talk to Dominic Lund-Conlon, accessibility and inclusion manager at Rail Delivery Group, about how far we’ve come in making public transport accessible and what the future holds. Plus, Matt talks flying cars – is it finally happening?
Dominic has worked in transport policy for 14 years. With lived and professional experience, Dominic focuses on inclusive solutions that empower customers to control their journey with confidence and dignity. He oversaw the rollout of the most recent Passenger Assist platform, and is also the founder of the website Review My Wheelchair.
Sophie: Hi, I’m Sophie-Marie Odum Lifestyle Magazine’s editor, the Motability Scheme’s customer magazine, which helps readers discover a world of possibilities.
Sam: And I’m Samantha Renke, broadcaster and disability rights campaigner. Now, you may know me from a very popular chocolate brand. Unfortunately, today’s show is not sponsored by said chocolate brand, but we’ve got plenty of goodness packed in for you. So without further ado, I feel like Sophie, we need a bit of a drum roll here.
Welcome everybody to the very first episode of The Motability Lifestyle Pod.
Sophie: Wooooo!!
Sam: In this podcast, we invite our friends from the disability community into the studio for a conversation about how we can all live our best life, particularly when we are navigating an often frustrating and complex disabling world.
Sophie: This month, Motability The Charity, that helps thousands of disabled [00:01:00] people discover independence is turning 45.
Sam: hurrah.
Sophie: To kick things off, we look back at how accessible transport has evolved over the years and what’s to come
Sam: Imagine a world where all trains are step-free and inclusive, and I transport plays an integral role in many disabled and neurodivergent people’s lives. Just the other day I a train and I hadn’t been on a train for quite some time. And I pleasantly surprised at how inclusive it ultimately was. And we’re definitely gonna talk a little bit more about that, but because I am not a train expert, I will leave it to the expert. So our very, very special guest today is Dominic Lund-Conlon, and he’s the accessibility and inclusion manager at Rail Delivery Group. so we’ll be asking him how far we’ve come in making our public transport accessible. And I think the even bigger question is, have we got a lot more to do?
Sophie: Hi, Sam.
Sam: Oh, hello. Fancy [00:02:00] seeing you here.
Sophie: What are the chances?
Sam: It’s like we’ve planned it and we’ve also coordinated our outfits. We are both in a very, my, my colour of la’moment um, did you like my French accent there? My favourite, uh, colour is green. . I think yours is more of an olive I’m a bit of a sage here. It’s like we talk before the show and coordinate, but no, this is just chance.
Sophie: I know, clearly in tune, aren’t we, Sam?…
Sam: oh, I think we do better than that. So tell me, well, well first of all, we’re in the studio and there is a lot pink going on which I’m happy about because I think this month has been Barbie fever. So I’ve totally embraced pink. You also provided me with some vegan sweets for the show, that are bright pink. But also, what is this over my shoulder? What can I see?
Sophie: It’s our award
Sam: Ohhhh! And it’s very pink.
Sophie: It’s pink, isn’t it? So, we won Cover of the Year, Silver Award, for our February [00:03:00] cover, where we spoke about how dogs are superheroes and they help their owners on a daily basis. And yeah, we were awarded the PPA cover the Year Silver Award, which we’re so excited about it and I’m so proud of the team. Just to blow my own trumpet a little bit, the judges said that this cover carefully considers its audience, is accessible to its readers and has driven engagement across the brand.
We’re just so delighted and I’m so proud of our team. Yes. So we can finally say we’re an award-winning magazine.
Sam: Award-winning darling. You should wear a t-shirt with that everywhere. Now, congratulations. That is a huge accomplishment.
I think awards are a weird one because, of course there’s so many people out there that do amazing things. But do you know what, who, who are we kidding? We want validation. We want a bright pink award that we can put up on a shelf and, you know, like brag about I’m all for the, you know, gratification. I need, I need gifts, I need awards, I need accolades, I need it all. And [00:04:00] I don’t care who judges me for that. But congratulations to and the team
Sophie: You’re also award-winning, aren’t you?
Sam: Not got my MBE yet, which I’m a little bit bitter about. But yes, I was, given a beautiful honour.
I went back to Lancaster University, so that’s where I did my BA and they awarded me the outstanding Alumni Award, which recognises, you know, graduates who ultimately give back to their community. So I, I delivered the keynote speech for the graduates at my old college. Um, so it was a lovely day. But what struck me apart from the nostalgia that was completely intoxicating and you know, obviously having this award and my mum there, it was just beautiful. The sunshine came out, which never happens in Lancaster, believe me, is the gown.
They had a wheelchair gown.
Sophie: That’s amazing.
Sam: they had a gown specifically that cut out at the back so that it kind of just drapes at the front and have [00:05:00] everything out. So it just didn’t, I didn’t have to sit on it because for all you, you wheelchair users out there, you know what like, particularly in winter.
Oh my goodness. Winter’s a nightmare. The more layers you have on, just so inconvenient. So yeah, so that was like a bit mind blowing, when I posted my picture in my cap and gown, I had so many wheelchair users reach out to me on social media, saying, I’m graduating, I’m really worried about the gown. And I say, well, make sure you ask for this. So I think, you know, every event has such a domino effect, a butterfly effect.
And this is why I love being in public eye for all the woes. I just think me, having that award, that recognition was a personal victory. But also having that experience allows me to educate others and share and, and if that makes someone feel more comfortable or encourages someone to go to university, um, I, I’m doing, I’m doing my job.
Well done. There we go. MBE, MBE…
Sophie: Well done Sam, that’s amazing.
Sam: Both of us. We go straight to the top of the [00:06:00] class, although I was never at the top of the class ’cause I was a bit of a chatter box.
But who is laughing now? Now, those were most definitely reasons to be cheerful, which brings us seamlessly to our first segment.
Sophie: That’s right, each episode we start by looking at some of the reasons to be cheerful. Either something that’s in the news that’s lifted spirits or an important event for the community. And on that note, it’s July. So it’s a big one, isn’t it, Sam?
Sam: It is. July is Disability Pride Month?
Sophie: Why is Disability Pride Month so important?
Sam: I think really, really important that we highlight Disability Pride Month.
And if I’m completely honest with you, I only heard of Disability Pride, I would say six years ago. It came up on my Instagram feed. I was like, what is this? Also, we’ve got a flag. How did I not know about that? And I think, although still very much in its infancy as a landmark celebration, but that does not mean that [00:07:00] we don’t sing about it and shout about it from the rooftops. I have been blessed with a whole host of disability authors and books that have come through my letter box. I mean that for me just shows that we are so much more engaged with disabled people and, and much more open to investing in our lives and our stories.
Sophie: I’ve read your recent column in The Metro entitled ‘It’s Disability Pride Month and I’m unapologetically proud to be me’, where you discuss your disability pride journey, which started in 2010. Um, so I just had a few questions Sam, because that was a really interesting article. I feel like I got know you a bit more, so was this journey before you stepped into stardom?
Sam: Absolutely. So I was born with a rare genetic condition, osteogenesis imperfecta, more commonly known as brittle bones.
Um, so I’ve always been a wheelchair user. I’m very much the only disabled person in the family, so to speak. And I, like many of us, I came as a bit of a [00:08:00] shock to the world. You know, my sister’s non-disabled and I guess, you know, coming from two very young parents, um, they were trying do the best that they could, but unfortunately, They were victims of their own unconscious bias about disability. So, although I’ve always had a very innate sense of worth, so I quite liked being unique. Quite liked the fact my dad was an antiques dealer. Quite liked the fact that when we went around the car boots or the antique fairs, people would like give me like stuffed teddy bears or lollipops.
And I love, I II was like, yes, hence why I’m a bit of a diva now. ’cause like people just would flock to me. ’cause I was cute. yeah, so I always had sense of pride, but I didn’t necessarily have a sense of pride in my disability because I was never shown that you could.
So I liked me and I was okay being in a wheelchair, but I didn’t like any other disabled people. And that, that is something that I’m not necessarily proud to admit, but it’s my [00:09:00] reality. Like, I was like, okay, so I’m me, but I don’t wanna hang around with you, you know? And that was my internalized ableism, absolutely showing through.
It was only by a really chance meeting, ironically, on a train. That’s a really good segue there, isn’t there really? By a chance meeting on train, um, I met someone who also had the same condition as me, and she, you know, she taught me that essentially what we talk about now, the social model of disability, that actually disabled people aren’t the problem.
You know, it’s society that disables us. It’s society that makes us feel lesser than, and that was a real flip in my consciousness and I truly believe that actually my body lets me down a lot. I’m in pain quite a lot, but so long as I have the right support, the right respect, the right provisions, as long as I have the tools to live my life, how I choose [00:10:00] to live, not at the pace of an able society, how I choose to pace myself and, and respect my own body.
So long as that’s the case, then yes, I will have pride in me. ’cause why, why wouldn’t I have pride in something? That is inherently a big part who I am.
Sophie: So Sam, what advice would you offer to listeners who don’t feel so proud right now?
Sam: it’s a sensitive subject and we’re all on different journeys, but I hope anyone who’s listening today, no matter where you are on your journey, I hope that you can block out the external voices and come to a place of contentment and find joy and perhaps one day find pride in your disability identity.
Sophie: Thank you. Sam,
Okay. So it’s time for our guest who is Dominic Lund- Conlon. Dominic is a mobility expert and is well known in his field for making a huge impact on many people’s ability to get around, both through his work with the Rail [00:11:00] Delivery group. And as founder of the website, review my wheelchair.
Sam: Dominic, a very, very warm welcome to the very first Motability Lifestyle podcast. I feel like we need to do a fanfare every, every time we introduce a guest. Well, so welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.
Now, before we get started, let’s address something. Let’s address the elephant in the room. You are, unfortunately not here in the studio with us, which is sad because you are missing out on some very, very nice treats. However, you aren’t here because the tube strikes in London were supposed to be happening, and then last minute they didn’t happen.
But let’s talk about transport and how sometimes it can be so inconsistent, and particularly when you are a disabled person, particularly like myself, a wheelchair user. You really do need to plan ahead just for that security, that reassurance. What’s,
What is going on?
Dominic: Well, I mean, it’s a fair question. Um, I mean, I’m, nobody mentioned treats to me, that [00:12:00] would’ve motivated me.
Sam: That would’ve been the clincher, wouldn’t it? That would’ve been the game changer for you.
Dominic: I am motivated by cake. Um, I mean , you are absolutely right. You know strikes, disruption. It, It messes with people’s plans, you know, and I think just put aside the minute the fact that when you’re disabled, your plans become more important to you because you are constantly planning your day from beginning to end to make sure that , that everything just works.
As any, any customers. The strikes have, really interrupted and, and caused disruption, you know? The industry is very sorry about that. We’re doing our best to resolve it.
Um, the thing that I, I would probably say here is if, if customers have plans, we want to make sure that customer plans happen as best as we can.
If there is disruption we need to pick up and support for customer to replan their journey accordingly. If there’s something additional needed, we sort that out. And even if customers are ‘ turn up and go’ we still [00:13:00] do our best because our commitment there is we, we will get you to your destination if you bought your ticket to the best of our ability.
Sophie: Dominic, in terms of the Motability report called the Transport Accessibility Gap, which found that in the UK the transport accessibility gap currently stands at 38%, which means that disabled people take 38% fewer trips than those without disabilities. And it’s a figure that hasn’t changed for over a decade, are you able to comment on that and just tell us your thoughts? ’cause I know that like, you know, within your role you’re doing a lot to assist that and to, to make journeys much more accessible.
Dominic: It makes me quite sad that, you know, 38% is massive it’s really in the rail industry’s gift to, to work on that and improve it. And within the plan for rail, which was issued oh, a couple of years ago now, there were, one of the aspects was about the necessity of a national rail accessibility strategy to close up as much of that gap as possible. That’s being drafted at the moment is due for consultation I believe later this year.[00:14:00]
And that’s going to really be the mechanism of the next five years, as well as beginning the steps of a long-term plan for change. Level boarding, for example, is one of the criticalities in there for many disabled people, not just wheelchair users, for those who may be living with vision loss, blind, those who maybe have mobility issues, actually they’re ambulant, they may have luggage with them.
That can’t happen overnight because we have rolling stock, which is on a 30-year life.
We’ve started some of that journey. We need to get the policy now to change, to enable that to become widespread, 100%. There are other bits as well though, around things like good customer information, end-to-end journey experience. The fact that we need to empower customer journeys. The way we’re going to do that, I think will be critical because it, it’s got to be about that, inclusive approach because as you say, that 38% gap is [00:15:00] you know, it, it’s not right. It it, it needs to be remedied.
Sam: I, and I think a lot of, a lot of this comes down to, and this is my personal opinion, you know, when we’re talking about removing barriers, I think that, you know, a lot of barriers can be removed, um, really with ease with, with not a lot of, you know, overhead costing, but the attitude. So it’s the attitude that, you know, just disabled people do not have rich lives.
That we don’t want to make spontaneous trips that we, you know, we, we kind of stay at home and then now, and again, pop to the hospital or our local, you know, kind of grocery store, and that’s, that’s it. And I think amplifying the voices of our community. I know a lot of, networks on transport are including disabled people and having kind of round table discussions, which is all really positive and has absolutely contributed to the progression that we’ve seen.
And I know that the passenger assist app, which is, um, something that has, you know, allowed for more spontaneous trips so that you can, you know, get an app on your phone and you can simply [00:16:00] request your assistance, you know, um, I think up to half an hour before taking a journey. Whereas prior to that it needed to be at least 24 hours before, which, you know, on surface, all seems incredibly forward thinking and all very, very inclusive, however, I sometimes wonder whether these initiatives are actually sending out the wrong message.
Because legally, if you turned up with any, um, access requirements, um, spontaneously, don’t the rail networks have a legal obligation to assist you anyway. So, you know, having these initiatives saying that we need to book assistance prior, is that not putting, again, the onus back onto disabled people. How, how do you feel about that?
Dominic: So, i, I disagree with that point of the onus back on disabled people. We’re very clear in our conversation. You can turn up and go. You can pre-book. It’s up to you as a customer.
You are our customer at the end of the day. We want you to be able to just travel. And your point about spontaneous travel, yeah, absolutely.[00:17:00]
Customers travel spontaneously because plans change because they identify.
I want to go and do something. You know, I want to go to the beach today. I want to go and see my friend’s dad, and we we offer turn up and go. We’ve not shied away from that. Some customers want that confirmation in advance of, look, I’ve reserved my seats. I’ve, I’ve booked assistance. I’ve got it here in front of me. That bit of confidence. If, you know,
if somebody’s anxious, for example, they’ve got that anxiety there. It has to be essentially, it, it’s not one size fits all is what I’m trying to say. If customers turn up, you know, if you turn up at a station today and said, “Hey, I need to go from here to there”, staff will assist.
Your point about hearts and minds is absolutely right. The Industry over the past three years, has been delivering training to improve that experience for customers.
It’s been disabled people led. And that is [00:18:00] quite important because the voice of disabled people is allied and comes through that training and yeah. I’m we’re seeing a lot of hearts and minds change out there. .
Is it perfect? Probably not yet. It, it takes time to change attitudes, and cultures, and I, I know that I, you know, my own experiences. I’ve had some terrific, experiences out there with people. I’ve also had some really poor experiences. Why I’ve fed back of, look, this needs to change because if I’m experiencing it, our customers certainly should not be.
Sam: Absolutely. And, and, and training is, is key. And you know, when I first started to come down to London independently, I would be often reminded by a lot of staff members. You know, “if you’re not here half an hour before, then we can’t, you know, we won’t take you or we refuse to take you”. And I, you know, I don’t hear any of these comments anymore.
So for my own, um, you know, sanity, so to speak, for my own reassurance, I think it’s great having options. And I think, [00:19:00] you know, living in a, in a disabling world, having options is, is something that will benefit everybody no matter what their needs or what their impairments. So, thank you. Um, thank you for clarifying that.
I think a lot of people are a little bit unclear about, you know, provisions that are out there and, and if we are actually all on the same page,
Sophie: So just going back to the transport accessibility gap, um, Motability has launched the National Center for Accessible Transport and it’s being run by Coventry University in collaboration with Charities and Organizations, Um, so I’m not sure if you’ve heard of the Center, but the Center will be focused on better understanding disabled people’s experiences and co-designing solutions. I just want to know your thoughts on this, Dominic.
Dominic: It’s fantastic. I mean, We can do all our own research till we’re blue in the face as a single transport industry, but we’re one mode. And actually that multimodal aspect of the partnership is vital. Because a customer’s journey doesn’t start, when you step out of the door and into a [00:20:00] railway station. I know very few people who actually live on a railway platform that’s next door to them. So that first- last model is critical. And it, it’s brilliant because we need solid research about the end-to-end journey that actively influences the, the journey overall for customers that end-to-end experience for them. I mentioned earlier that National Rail accessibility strategy and the, the partnership, the
National, Center for Accessible Transport Partnership there will be influencing a lot of that work going on because as you said, that that gap there that we, we want to bring down, um, that’s critical. But the other factor here is the purple pound. You know, that it’s, what is it? I think it’s 40, 40 million pounds
Sam: it’s gone. Gone up now. Gone up now.
Dominic: It’s gone up. Gone up. Yeah. Inflation. Um, we want our slice of that pie. You know, railway the railways wants Customers. And, you [00:21:00] know, disabled people don’t travel for free. They pay a fair. It’s important that we respect the value of our customers, and that means, you know, if we’re taking your money as a customer, we’ve gotta make sure that your experience is equitable. That we treat you with respect, that we provide the service that you need.
Sam: Now here on The , Motability Lifestyle Pod, we are all about the good vibes, how to live your best life. So I know we’ve talked about some heavy, heavy themes here, so I now want to know from you, Dominic, can you share with us all some of your most positive experiences of rail travel?
I’ll tell you mine, they often include little tiny bottles of liquid. That’s what I quite like about travelling when I get upgraded, from the pauper cabin to first class, and then I have an abundance of these tiny little bottles, which I quite like. ’cause as a, a little person, quite like things that are also little that I can put in my pocket.
But enough [00:22:00] about me. Dominic, share with us all some of your highs from rail travel.
Dominic: I like the cans of ginger beer. Um, yeah, I’m snobby. Like I, I, I like a ginger beer more than a, Coca-Cola. Um, I mean, for me, the perfect journey happens every time I go to the office, and that’s because Greater Anglia runs level boarding trains from Norwich into London . The best journey’s are unremarkable. The fact that I don’t have to necessarily interact with anybody unless I choose to, which, um, you know, at first thing in the morning you know, 6:00 AM the, the only interaction I want is, please, can I have a cup of coffee? And then I just sort of get myself prepared for the day.
Um, I mean, I’ve had some great experiences. Otherwise, I mean, I’ve turned up for trains, five minutes to go, three minutes to go and yep, let’s, let’s get cracking.
And it’s that, that positivity, that willingness of yeah, we’re gonna make your journey happen. they [00:23:00] make the good experiences, they make the great journeys. if you ask me like my best experiences, um, traveling to Dundee with L N E R from Kings Cross, uh, the friendly staff, the fact that it’s a long journey, uh, and just yeah. Or “keep an eye out on the right hand side for this view as we go”.
Just seeing some of the UK I mean, The UK is incredibly rich country when it comes to the window view. Um, I dunno, Sam or Sophie if you’ve ever been to Cornwall, for example, the trains go along the sea wall at Dawlish and you get, you’re literally right next to the sea again in Folkstone to Dover. It’s the same.
The ride to Scotland’s gorgeous. Uh, I love the West Coast as well.
Sam: Now I’d terrified. I’m not gonna lie. I’d be a little bit scared being that close to the water’s edge.
Sophie: I haven’t been. It sounds amazing though, the view.
Dominic: It, it is amazing. It really is gorgeous. I mean, I’ve been very lucky in that I’ve experienced some great railways. Um, and I have to say, yeah, [00:24:00] we are very, very, blessed with some great railway views. I mean, I haven’t even touched on sort of Harry Potter, um, and the ride from Fort William up to Malay going over the viaduct, um, there, which I know is many people would associate, uh, with a steam train. So I, I’ve had some great journey experiences. It’s the people always make it. I mean, you know, you said earlier that the staff, that you know, people out there, that they really can make a journey brilliant. And they always do. Those friendly, encounters, being told, “that’s where you’re gonna find the best view”. ” Have a look at this when you get to your destination”.
Sophie: Yeah. As long as I don’t talk to you before 6AM in the morning.
Dominic: Don’t talk to me before 6:00 AM in the morning because, uh, I, I won’t be speaking much back. I, I have, I have, to be honest, I have now got my coffee order down to two grunts and a nod.
Sophie: I can relate to that, Dominic. Um, so what does the future of accessible transport look like? Or what would you ideally like it to look like?
Dominic: I [00:25:00] think my ideal would be, certainly things like level boarding across the country. The ability to obtain that support where you need it. Seamless, integrated, equitable. What does it look like in that utopian goal? Certainly the next five years. And that strategy, the national accessibility strategy is gonna be critical for some of the enablers to get that going. As I said some changes are massive and they don’t happen overnight. But there’s other bits as well, like good customer Information.
There’s a couple of programs underway at the minute. One of them is called ‘Smarter Information. Smarter Journeys’ and things like knowing that your lift is functioning at a station. We’ve got a pilot underway at the minute where, if a lift has been fitted with a piece of equipment, they’re calling an emu an electronic monitoring unit. Uh, I just like the fact it just relates to a, a a bird that certainly I’ve seen on the, [00:26:00] on, uh, Instagram, that can have an attitude. Um, or is it an ostrich, I digress , anyway? So, if it is fitted with, the, With, uh, latest emus, it tells, network rail. If that lift is operational or not. If it stops working, it sends an alert. They get an engineer out there quicker.
But we can also take that feed and we have, and there’s a system called Access Map, uh, which is one of the tools we offer, which is an ‘at a glance’, see if your station is accessible or not.
We’ve actually, been able to put that information in there. We are creating a webpage to go parallel, so you can just search a station, you’ve got the information there. That is rolling out at the moment so customers can see if a lift is working or not working at their local station, before they travel. It doesn’t take away from if the lift is not working, we still need to make sure we do what we need to do to make a journey happen. Because It’s on, it’s on the rail industry, if something is broken, to [00:27:00] fix it, or find another alternative. It’s a really massive piece of uh, of work. The last bit, um, and again, it’s information is within the rail, uh, plan for rail, there was an audit being undertaken but it was said, we needed to audit and look at all the accessibility of stations and put uh, A good, clear source of truth out there.
That information, uh, has all been gathered. The, audit has been completed, and now we’re in the process of integrating that into the overall asset management, but also making that information available to customers in a meaningful way according to their requirements.
So, for example, if somebody is, uh, living with vision loss, if they’re blind, telling a customer that there are tactile surfaces, at a station or not, is critical.It’s really important. Uh, likewise, just knowing as a wheelchair, users for example, just knowing that there [00:28:00] are steps into a particular entrance of a station and to use the main entrance, for example, rather than the side. That is critical for me.
The other thing though in there is things like, uh, BSL information. We’ve began a process of rolling out BSL signs at network rail stations. I know Transpennine have rolled this out at several stations as well. And just being clear to customers where they exist and, and building that, out.
Sam: sounds, you know, incredible. Because as we know, you know, disabled people have different experiences. We have different needs. We are not a monolith, you know, we make up such a huge proportion of the UK population, but what we need and at any given time, may differ and that may differ from day to day, um, given, you know, whether we’ve got a PA with us, whether our health is failing us.
And, you know, you touched upon it earlier about the, the importance of equality, but also understanding equity. And it sounds like you, [00:29:00] you have understood your mission that, you know, we might not always get to a point where we have this universal, goal of inclusion, but you’ve definitely taken a targeted approach.
I’m sure that is music to, to many of our listeners ears now. I know we’ve not got too much long with you. It’s been a fascinating conversation and we could have talked for a very long time. I’m sure we’ll be getting you back, um, very soon. But as it is July. And it’s Disability Pride Month.
I would love to know from you, what does Pride mean to you? What does disability pride mean to you and how do you celebrate?
Dominic: So disability Prides me is that celebration of our demographic, um, is very personal. I mean, I like to use it as a time to just reflect on what’s important to me, what makes me, me, and I, you know, my pride as a disabled person. I think disability Pride is massively underrecognized. We don’t celebrate it as much in the rail industry, as we could, and that’s partly [00:30:00] because we need to find the right ways to celebrate it, it can’t be lip service.
If you take part in pride, if we’re gonna celebrate it, it needs to be sustainable. It needs to be continuous. And, keep delivering that. And I think that’s the one thing for me is that if I’m gonna celebrate pride in a, in a very public arena, It can’t just be that lip service approach of when day in, day out, you know, customers, I think is what 8% of customers of the ORR said at the minute are experiencing passenger assistance failures.
We, we shouldn’t necessarily go out and say, look how wonderful we are. We need to fix the problems first before we come along and say, right, we are now in a place where we can celebrate pride you know, with disabled people. I, I, think the other thing as well here is that the, disability pride month shows some of that inequity in our society overall, Put aside the railways for a moment, disability pride is a very muted affair when you consider it to other celebrations, that [00:31:00] you, you pointed out there, Sam, that disabled people make up a considerable part of our population of that for me is very much enabling people to feel safe and say, actually, yeah,I do have a disability I can, associate or ally with disabled people here because, that’s certainly one of the challenges that we need to overcome in, in this country is about giving people that, that, confidence of if you say you are disabled, it doesn’t make you any less of a person.
Sophie: Brilliant. Thank you so much Dominic. So much to, to think about
Sam: It been an absolute pleasure. Bring back trolleys on trains. Bring back trolleys on trains. I want my Kit Kat. Okay, Dominic, thank you so much and wait for it because we will be back with car chat.
Sophie: Thank you very much.
Sam: Sophie, guess what? What? I think this is gonna be my favourite part of the show. It’s Car with Matt… , I think I’m just like copywriting other songs. So I’ll just maybe add to edit that [00:32:00] Bit Out. Car chat with Matt.
Matt: really enjoyed that. I hope that follows me round wherever I go.
Sam: I really hope so too.
Sophie: I love the jingle.
Sophie: I don’t need introduce you anymore. It’s Matt Lizzimore
Matt: Hi. Hello guys. How are we both? Good, how are you? Good, good. Thank you. Excited to be here. Very excited to talk about
Sam: cars
Matt: Yes, and hopefully, hopefully entertaining car stuff as well because
Sam: I am not yet a driver, the closest I’ve come is my power wheelchair. So I use both, um, a manual and a power chair, but my power chair is relatively new to me, so I now need to like, You know, be conscious of crossing the road and actually look left and right and use the indicator. So I feel like I am getting…
Matt: to the car the level.
Sam: Exactly. I’ve not hit anyone yet. Okay. Came close. Had one woman go, “you need to get an alarm”. And I went: “I do have one. I don’t use it”
Sam: You need to watch where you’re going, don’t you
Matt: There you go.
Sam: So can tell kind driver I’m gonna be: passive aggressive. That’s what I’m gonna be, anyway, I [00:33:00] digress.
Sophie: So given that this episode is looking back at 45 years of Motability. I came across a story that looks to future and looks to flying cars because Matt in the US they are testing a flying car that’s been approved for road testing as well. And it could be available as early as 2025.
Sam: Well, what hang, we don’t even have like selfless, selfless.
Matt: self-driving. It’d be nice if we had selfless cars pay for their own petrol.
Sam: So we, we’ve gone from not having that yet on our roads to flying cars. Explain.
Matt: Uh, so yes. Uh, so this company, they’ve, they’ve got a, a working prototype, which in theory does work, uh, and it’s been signed off. So yeah, the license they’ve got is effectively for testing and research and development and sort of promotional stuff really. So it’s not, and this is in the US as well, which is obviously very different to the UK.
Sam: Same kind of people that also did the submarine thing. Are we talking about?
Matt: Hopefully it’s not.
Matt: I mean, I mean, I’m hoping it’s not quite that. [00:34:00] I’m, I’m hoping there’s a bit more research involved
Sam: Well,
Matt: Who knows? Well, it’s similarly expensive. Uh, yeah. So I guess realistically, if we’re talking about how real this is gonna be for us, are we gonna be getting into flying cars in a couple years?
Probably not. Realistically, if we’re honest, um, for one thing, I just can’t imagine how it would actually work. So, so the reason this is they think this is viable is because it’s what they call veto. So vertical takeoff and landing. So what that means is it doesn’t need a run up to take off. So you’d get in your car, start it up, and you could Just, sort of ascend vertically and be off on your way.Hovering. Yeah. Yeah. just just
Sam: shoes like that already. No?
Matt: Thought that’d be nice, wouldn’t it?
Sam: they have shoes like that
Matt: do they?
Sam: Google it.
Sophie: Like back to the Future?
Sam: Yeah, all already have them. Saw it on the Kardashians, so it must be true.
Matt: It exists. There you go. So yeah, I mean, so this thing, this thing works. They’ve got a working prototype. Um, it’s, at the moment it’s very expensive. I think it was about £300,000-ish, or $300,000 it would’ve been, I guess. [00:35:00] Um, and yeah, and, and there’s certain limitations, like I think it can, it can only drive up to 25 miles an hour when it’s on the road.
But in theory, if you needed to go far, you’d be flying it. Um, I just can’t imagine, could you imagine Central London if there were cars flying and I, I just can’t see how it could possibly..
Sam: bikes. Not stopping it crossing.
Sophie: Yeah.
Matt: that would, I mean I guess that would be one of the advantages would be if there were more flying cars Yeah.
Then you could turn some of the sort of city streets to make them more accessible for people and, and bikes and wheelchairs. , but yeah, I mean you raised an exceptional point, Sam, is that we haven’t even quite got the driverless cars going yet. So having flying cars that are also potentially sort of self-driving seems quite, seems like a long way away.
Um, but that does steer us nicely. Onto driverless cars. Mm. Which is something that is a little bit, certainly closer, I believe, than flying cars in the, the technology’s not miles away. Um, there’s just little pieces missing. So the legislation is one of the things, actually the laws of how it works. Who’s at fault if a car [00:36:00] crashes and you are not driving it?
I mean
Sam: am not going to lie, I was carried around on a pillow as a child, mostly because I would fracture my bones very, very easily. However,
it’s just, you know, made me into a really bougie, human being. So, although I really am going to learn to drive, I would just love to become filthy rich so that I could buy
Matt: a car
Sam: that drives on its own. So how realistically, how long that going to take So, and, and, and, who do I need marry to be able to get that money?
Matt: That’s a very good question. Uh, I can’t help help you on the marriage one. But in terms of how far away is it? It’s kind of, it is both a complicated and an easy question to answer.
So, uh, I’ll explain. There’s what we call, there’s levels of autonomy. Basically there’s five levels or six of you, count zero, zero is no autonomy. and we, at the moment we are around level two and 2.5, which is effectively, the car can kind of drive itself in certain situations, but [00:37:00] you still have to be watching the road.
So you still have to be ready to take control at any
Sam: It’s too work for me though.
Matt: right? Yeah. So it’s not, it’s almost there, but it’s not quite there. What we are talking about when we think of completely driverless cars, like the future is these level five, which is where you get in the car, and at no point are you going to be expected to actually control it. get in. Absolutely. You’d be snoozing in the back or whatever, having a, a drink maybe, or whatever. is
Sam: “Or Whatever”?
Matt: I’m not here to judge. People could could do what they like
Sam: and they do. For me, apart from the bougie-ness aside, being a disabled woman, I know that there’s a lot of technology out there, and Motability are incredibly advanced in all this that will allow someone who’s petite stature, um, wheelchair user to drive very safely and have full independence.
However, you know, I don’t know if I’m gonna break my arm and I wanna know that, [00:38:00] you know, if I do break an arm, then I wanna still be able to get, get to where I need to go. So, from a disability standpoint, what are the advantages of, of these types of, of cars? Yeah.
Matt: yeah, so there’s obviously. Potentially huge benefits for the disabled community because if you think, obviously I’ve said that sort of level five long term in the future, completely driverless cars, that would be fantastic. ’cause in theory then you don’t need a steering wheel and all the other bits that you associate with the inside of a car, the car could effectively just look like a small room inside.
So then suddenly it’s much easier to do things like get a wheelchair in and out. Um, and you know, you could just be. , people with blindness, for example, would be able to get in and allow them a whole new level of independence where they wouldn’t necessarily need a carer to get them somewhere, that kind of thing.
Um, so it, you know, it, it potentially offers a, a huge amount of freedom and, and independence to to people who at the moment have access to the mobility scheme, which is great. Um, and hopefully some of these autonomous features will eventually end up on the cars on the scheme. So today there are actually a few [00:39:00] cars that do have some autonomous features.
Obviously not quite to that level. You can’t just sit in there and take a nap and arrive at your destination. Uh, but for example, the Ford Mustang Mach-E which is an electric car, uh, that is actually the first car in the UK where you are legally allowed to take your hands off the wheel on the motorway.
So it’s got a system called Blue Cruise. Once you’re on the motorway and it is only for motorways, the car checks that you are actually watching the road.
So you do have to watch the road. If you don’t, it tells you off and you have to carry on driving yourself. But so long as you’re watching the road, you can take your hands off the wheel, which, alright, it’s not, it’s not quite the same as being able to read a book or watch a YouTube video or something, but it’s a bit easier than having to actually, you know, be a hundred percent full concentration the whole time.
Sam: Yeah, give, the shoulders a little of a rest. Well that will, that’s all great. But what about knickknacks? What about gadgets for the car?
Sophie: Yes. You found something that can make our journeys much more interesting?
Matt: I have something, don’t you worry.We’re gonna try and have some exciting gadgets some weeks and others that I think are just gonna be very helpful. So this one, it sounds dull on the face of it is, uh, is [00:40:00] basically a wireless adapter for Android Auto and Apple CarPlay.
Now if you dunno what that is, Sam, you might not because sleep, Sam, sorry about that. It’s really dull sounding, isn’t it? So Sam, you are, you are yet to start your driving adventure fully, right? Um, but you might get to know Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Once you start. It’s very useful. It basically uses your smartphone on the car screen effectively.
So all the apps that you love, like Spotify or Apple Music or whatever it is you use, you can then access through your car screen. So you can just play all your Spotify playlists. You, you’re playing a song in the kitchen. You get in your car, it carries on playing, so you’ve got access to all your music and whatnot.
I can set it up before I’m even in the car and I get in and it’s on the screen. Could be dangerous.
Sam: Your misses make look at your history!
Matt: the reason, the reason this gadget is useful is because previously you had to connect it your phone with a cable, A: it’s just not possible for everyone.
And B: if you’re like me, you’re just always gonna forget the cable
Sam: Thank you Matt. That was riveting. I cannot wait to to [00:41:00] hear more about gadgets and automobile.
Matt: until next time, see you soon guys.
Sophie: Thanks Matt. So that’s it for this episode of The Motability Lifestyle Pod. It’s been fun. Thanks to our guest, Dominic Lund -Conlon at Matt Lizzimore. Thanks to our producer Joleen Goffin at Rethink Audio and our editorial assistant Lucy Rhodes at Wonderly
Sam: if you like this episode, follow us. Tell all your friends and please leave a review. If you want to tell us what you thought or if there’s something you’d like to hear, come say hello on Instagram. For some behind the scenes content, follow us on TikTok and watch the full video on YouTube.
You can find us on Motability_ Lifestyle_ Mag. Finally, if you want more information about Motability Schemes, go to motability.co.uk. Or if you want to learn more about Motability, The Charity, visit motability.org.uk And that’s it. I am Samantha Renke
Sophie: I’m Sophie Marie Odum. See you in two weeks.
