Sophie: Hi, I’m Sophie-Marie Odum, Lifestyle Magazine’s editor.
Sam: And I’m Samantha Renke, Broadcaster and Disability Rights Campaigner and a huge welcome to The Motability Lifestyle Pod. In this podcast, we invite our friends from the disability community into the studio for a conversation about how we can all live our best lives, particularly when navigating a disabling world.
Sophie: And today we’re talking romance because how can we live our best life without it? Whether that be with a partner or just some self-love.
We’ll be joined by Dr Hannah Barham-Brown, disability, gender equality consultant, speaker, and Motability Governor, to talk about the wild world of dating.
Sam: This Sophie is music to my ears because I think even my cats are willing that I find somebody to go out with, because they’re sick of me, I think, at this point. Long-term single, right here.
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Sophie: Hi, Sam. How are you?
Sam: I’m very well. How are you? We have colour coordinated again.
Sophie: I know how, how we don’t even speak before the show. We just, we don’t, we just know what to wear. We’re..
Sam: just, we’re just, you know, on the same wavelength. We just know, we know what, we know what the people want.
Sophie: I love it.
Sam: I think that’s what it is. I…
sophie: I love it. I wanna see how long we can keep this going for.
Sam: I think we’ve jinxed ourselves now though, haven’t we? Next week. Next week is like the, the, the, the clincher.
Sophie: So, Sam, I’ve got a question for you. How do you feel about technology?
Sam: Wow. So I am absolutely one of those people who has to have the, the latest gadget on the market, and probably showing my age here but I remember when Furbys came out. Yes, so these little, these little like creatures, I don’t even know what they were. Were they little mice or
Sophie: Weren’t they based on that film?
Sam: Oh, Gremlins. Yes. Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. So I remember, you know, I love that I had [00:02:00] to get a tamagotchi. I think technology is wonderful.
I’m sat here currently in my electric wheelchair. I am both a manual wheelchair user and a power chair user. And at the moment I’ve got a bit of a dodgy knee and just being able to use my chair that kind of has, um, recline, you know, just to take that pressure off. I think technology is fabulous.
However, do I have patience for technology? That is a, that’s probably a whole different question.
So I think, yeah, I think I’ve got a love hate relationship with, um, technology. How about you?
Sophie: I think I’m the same. I think we’ve become so used to things just happening so fast mm-hmm. That when things take a little bit longer, we can get so frustrated so quickly. Absolutely. I just think that’s more and more happening.
More and more with many more people. But um, I’ve been reading some stories about AI and how it could possibly solve the epidemic of loneliness.
Sam: Wow.
Sophie: So would you befriend an AI Sam?
Sam: Well, I mean, probably yes, because actually [00:03:00] thinking about all the strife and heartache that I’ve had in my life, they’ve come from actual human beings. And I think, you know, I am very much an animal lover and one of the appeals to having, you know, company of animals is that, I suppose, unconditional love.
You know, they don’t see my disability, and I know that’s quite a loaded statement. I don’t mean that they, you know, they, they’re oblivious to my needs, etc because obviously they’re animals, but I mean, they don’t know that I’m having difficulty or my PA hasn’t turned up or any, any of the, the, the barriers that we can often experience.
My cats just see me as their mummy and I feel a lot of fulfillment and joy from, you know, knowing that they rely on me so much, and I think that is intoxicating. Particularly if you face, you know, ableism, particularly when you face disablism, you know, just going out on the street and you have all these, really harmful, [00:04:00] sad interactions with other people, other human beings who are, who are supposed to be empathic and sympathetic and supportive, and they, they can fail you. I understand the appeal of having, you know, artificial intelligence who, who won’t judge you for you.
Yes, I think it can be incredible for some people who really struggle with those one-on-one interactions, for whatever reason. There is obviously, like everything, two sides to every story, and there could be a danger to isolating yourself even more.
I think we need human interaction, no matter who we are.
Sophie: I know, I mean, I’m conflicted, but just to tell you a little bit about the report that I found. Yeah, so r obots can be the solution to loneliness, reduce stress, and can help older people remain healthy and active in their homes. Um, what’s more, some robots can engage in more [00:05:00] spontaneous conversations and even mimic the voices of old friends and loved ones who have passed away. Ohhh.
Sam: Ooh.
Sophie: So, yes. I mean, I’m a bit on the fence about mimicking voices. I think, from my personal opinion, that’s a step too far. But I understand how it could be, you know? A way to bring comfort to some people. And I understand the companionship, because like you just said, you know, robots could be loyal just like pets and there’s no judgment there.
So I understand both sides of the coin. Whether I’ll be friends an AI, I mean, who knows? I mean,
Sam: it’s, it’s really interesting. We often see my mum’s a nurse and she, uh, works with a lot of our senior members of society and people who have Alzheimer’s and so on and so forth. And I think, you know, Uh, it would creep me out if I heard a deceased loved one, if I’m completely honest.
Although, my dad died when I was nine and I, I don’t, I can’t remember his voice and I guess that is a sadness, but I don’t think I would want someone to appropriate, mimic. [00:06:00] However, on a health level, if someone maybe has Alzheimer’s, would that potentially jog someone’s memory? Because we understand that the power of music…
Sophie: Yes.
Sam: Can be so beneficial for people who, um, have Alzheimer’s. So I dunno. I oh gosh. It’s a tricky one, isn’t it?
Sophie: It is
Sam: it’s so difficult, but I think even just, I, I, I quite like having like an Alexa. I, I say goodnight to my Alexa. Do you? That really sad?
Sophie: I don’t have an Alexa.
Sam: do you not? Are you, do you think like the, they’re list…, they’re they got, they’re listening in?
Sophie: I do. on one of those.
Sam: it’s listening.
Sophie: I mean, you know, sometimes I’m talking about something and the next thing, it’s all over my phone.
Well, luckily we don’t have to worry about AI for now, because according to another report, robots will be more commonplace, but not until 2050 as in, in the home. So that’s our first reason to be cheerful. Looking at the positives…
…of AI. Our next reason to be cheerful is [00:07:00] a story about Felix Klieser, he was born with a limb difference. And he plays a 12 foot French horn with his left foot. And from the age of four, amazingly, because not many four year olds would know what a French horn is. Um, he knew he wanted to play the French horn, but due to his disability, he was discouraged by a lot of people who thought it might be too difficult for him, etc, etc.
But he’s proved the doubt is wrong. He’s travelled the world, he’s won awards, released successful albums.
Sam: I, I, you know, obviously these stories are incredible and we need to absolutely celebrate everyone who’s part of the community, who has, who has said. No, no. If you say no, then I’m gonna say yes and completely n egated all the naysayers, so to speak.
But I also, I’m mindful when I listen to these stories, that there’s so many variables that go into, um, success stories. You know, we have to understand the… That, you know, coming from a socioeconomic background [00:08:00] that isn’t as rich or having, you know, kind of supportive parents or, you know, being in a, a family environment that is forward thinking with regards to extracurricular activities.
So I am very, very mindful that when we talk about, um, success stories, that, it, it’s not always the case for everybody. And I wouldn’t want anyone to, you know, feel guilt or, like they’re not living their best life because, you know, we’ve all got our journeys, we’ve all got, you know, our stories to tell.
I just hope that, you know, stories like this do, um, change the narrative and hopefully, you know, in future generations, the naysayers will be a thing of the past. But it’s really interesting because I was actually thinking when I read this story, there aren’t that many famous musicians. Now, I’m not probably the expert in this field, but to come to my mind, there aren’t that [00:09:00] many neurodivergent or deaf or disabled pop stars or real musicians. Obviously there are kind of the Stevie Wonder, who is amazing. I know that Lady Gaga has spoken about her invisible disability, but apart from that…
Sophie: I mean, over the summer we had Lewis Capaldi Yes. At Glastonbury, which was a massive moment.
Sam: Absolutely. That was, if you’ve, anyone has not seen the footage, I urge you all to, you know, kind of go and Google that. That was really powerful. So he has, um, he, he has Tourettes, is that correct? And sometimes that can manifest on stage and um, at one point, you know, his Tourette’s kind of took over and everyone in the audience kind of really encouraged him and, and supported him. And it was beautiful to see, and it was nice that he could be himself in front of that, like thousands of people. Um, but again, I, I, feel like same with television… We have seen some [00:10:00] progression in terms of representation, but I definitely think the music industry lags. A little bit when we look at disability I wonder why that is.
Sophie: I know, I, maybe we need to do an investigation.
Sam:Maybe I need to, you know, release my, um, Matt, Matt Lyric, my little rap.Maybe I can do that. Maybe we can go for Christmas number one Sophie?
Sophie: I like the idea of that Sam. Yeah, why not?
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Sophie: Our guest today is Dr. Hannah Barham-Brown.
Hannah is a GP registrar in Yorkshire, a Motability Governor and former deputy leader of the UK Women’s Equality Party. She was the first visibly disabled political party deputy leader in UK history, and she was named one of the most influential disabled people in the UK.
Sam: More importantly, she’s a good friend of mine. Hurrah.Woo.
Sophie: Hi Hannah. Welcome to the Lifestyle Pod.
Hannah: Hi. Thank you for having me. This is so much fun.
Sophie: So today we’re talking about dating with a disability. Hannah, why isn’t this [00:11:00] talked about enough and how can we change the narrative? Because looking at all the dating shows, we just don’t see disability enough other than the Undateables, which we, I think we can all agree is just shocking.
Hannah: It’s a massive issue, isn’t it? Because I think you’re right. There isn’t enough media representation. The only show I think that I can like, bring to mind that does this relatively well occasionally is like Naked Attraction.
Um, but you shouldn’t need to take your clothes off on national TV to be on a dating show as a disabled person and be treated with respect. so I think, there’s definitely a role for the media in this, but I think also when it comes to being disabled people, if and where we are comfortable, it can be really helpful for us to speak about our experiences.
Obviously the onus shouldn’t be on disabled people to like fix this and the role of non-disabled allies who may be partners of disabled people getting involved. That can be really helpful as well. And there are some great examples out there of this. So, for example, if you go on Instagram, there’s a guy called John EJ Reynolds who talks about, um, being a dad, raising his very young children and his wife is a wheelchair user.
And occasionally he talks about, you know, the experiences of like having young kids and having a partner who’s a wheelchair user, but in a really lovely kind of, yeah, this is our family. This is completely normal kind of way. Um, So whilst I don’t think we need to use your personal experiences specifically, we can talk a bit more widely about that, and I guess that’s something I do quite a lot.
So, as a GP, my professional interest, if you like, is in sexual health and wellbeing. Um, And I’m hyper aware that I’m doing that and I’m talking about these issues as somebody who is visibly disabled. And whilst I might not be talking necessarily about my own sex life, um, which I don’t do very often, my dad’s a vicar that would freak him out.
Um, I think it’s, it’s really important that those of us who do feel comfortable talking about this can because it gives that subtle nod of, yeah, this matters to us too. And yeah, I think [00:13:00] things like dating apps, which I know we’ll talk about a bit later, also have responsibility to kind of consider the 16 million disabled people in the UK when they’re developing their strategies too.
So I think there’s a lot of ways we can make things better. Um, We need to get a bit more comfortable sometimes talking about it and highlighting the fact that yeah, we are potentially sexual beings or people who want to have loving relationships or both. Um, and that’s okay. That’s a good thing. We should be celebrating that.
Sam: I think there is still this voyeuristic fascination I remember when I first moved to London, and I was new on the scene for the media and I was constantly inundated to do radio, to do magazine interviews, and all they wanted to know was about my sex life and me being naive and me just wanting to get, you know, some publicity.
I said yes to everything. And looking back, I actually felt incredibly exploited because it wasn’t beneficial for society, for my own community. And I don’t necessarily think [00:14:00] we have progressed.
Hannah: Yeah, I completely agree. I think the fetishization of disability is a really big issue when we talk about this. I mean, I guess I’m really lucky in that I grew up with a visibly disabled mum who was, and still is, very much married to my non-disabled father. And you know, they’d met when she was disabled as like 18 year olds and have been married ever since, almost.
Um, And so for me it was always completely normal that you’d see a disabled and a non-disabled person in a loving relationship. They would have kids, they would get married, they would do all that normal stuff. And so when I became disabled, it just kind of became a, yeah, okay. So nothing changes on that front.
Um, and God did I get the shock of my life, but I think it’s, it is really interesting how having those role models and having that example meant that I just kind of grew up going, yeah, of course this is completely normal and it’s the rest of the world that’s really behind on this.
Sam: What about your own dating experience? Because, you know, disabled people have such a, a rich and plethora, shall we [00:15:00] say, of interesting dating stories. I often find. Would you, would you care sharing some of those with us today?
Hannah: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think I’ve had a bit of a, I mean, look, disabled people are not homogenous group by any stretch, are we? So I think, you know, we do all have interesting stories to tell. I think I’ve, I’ve covered it from a slightly different perspective in that, you know, I’m a queer woman, so I don’t really take much interest in the gender of the person I’m dating.
It’s more whether or not I’m attracted to them. And I’ve had relationships with male and female partners, and I guess it was a little bit different for me in many ways in that I was, um, diagnosed with my condition when I was 27. Um, I was at that point in a long-term relationship. I’d been running half marathons until my knee cap started dislocating.
Um, should stop running if that happens. Top tip. Um, and was diagnosed with Ehlers- Danlos then, and very quickly ended up having to get a wheelchair. And so when that relationship then subsequently [00:16:00] ended having been in a relationship with somebody who’d known me as non-disabled and then had been with me throughout the process of becoming disabled, if there is such a thing, um. It was like a whole new world. It’s like, how does one do this? But at least having had that kind of, you know, role model type experience to my parents, I knew that it was possible. Right? Um, I also kind of dealt with the fact that I am very googleable person. You type in my name. Firstly, I’m the only Hannah Barham- Brown I think possibly in the world.
Um, it’s quite a unique name. And also, I’ve done a lot of getting angry about various things in the media. So if you Google me, you are going to see a woman in a wheelchair probably stuck on a train. It’s kind of become my thing. And so there was no point trying to hide my disability from people I might be dating because they would find it and then it would just be weird.
Um, so I decided I would be very, very open about it. And I guess, you know, one of the more challenging things has been [00:17:00] like people don’t know how to act around you in various circumstances. Most of the time it’s well-meaning because frankly, if they’re not up for dating a disabled person, they shouldn’t be swiping on the person in a wheelchair.
Like save everybody some time here just, if you can’t handle it, don’t bother, don’t waste my time. Um, but when I have dated non-disabled people, I found they can be quite anxious about, you know, oh my goodness, is that gonna hurt you? Oh my goodness, can you do this? Um, do you need me to do this? And so I’ve always been very kind of upfront with, look, if I need something or I need you to know something, or I could do with something, the onus is on me to tell you that.
And it’s really important that any partner I have doesn’t feel like they’re having to constantly second guess my disability as well. I want them to be able to approach this as they would any other relationship and the disability side of things is on me. That might not be the way everyone else wants to run their relationship, but it’s worked for me and my relationship with my body and my disability.
But I have found that, [00:18:00] yeah, it’s often not the person I’m dating that I have the challenges with. It’s the assumptions other people who know that person make about our relationship that can be quite entertaining. So, you know, people do assume that that person is suddenly taking on a caretaker role, that they’re gonna like lose a whole chunk of their life by having to date this disabled woman.
Um, there is a massive kind of saint narrative around anyone who chooses to date a disabled person. You know, I guess I’ve seen that played out through my life because yeah, my dad is literally a vicar who had a woman in a wheelchair as his wife. And my God, everyone thought he was actually a saint.
Like it was just ridiculous. Um, so I guess I was kind of almost immune to parts of it, but there have been a few kind of inappropriate questions. A few assumptions made that I don’t like, but I think as a very gobby, forthright person, I’ve managed to quell most of that early on. [00:19:00] And now I’m quite happily in a relationship with a wonderful woman I’ve been with for nearly two years.
We met on Bumble, so if you are on dating apps, it is possible. And actually, It works really well because she is kind of my voice of reason a little bit.
Sam: You mentioned two things that I wanted to just pick up on and they completely resonated with me. And the first of all is kind of that having to educate people. So I’ve, I’m the worst at, dating. I’m not very proactive. I am a little bit stubborn when it comes to dating, to be fair, I’ve had some really horrendous dating experiences I’m a petite statured wheelchair user.
I do look different. This one guy was trying to like, court me a little bit and then I I was on a swing and I was like moving my legs and he went, “oh my God, you can move your legs?” and for me, I don’t want to have to educate constantly the partner that I’m with, but I think, you said earlier, it is up to you to kind of navigate and say, well, these are my limitations, these are my boundaries.
I actually get quite angry. I shut things down too quickly and I don’t know where to set [00:20:00] those b oundaries. But I think you also mentioned about, and I, I said this for a long time, you know, I didn’t want, a lover to be a carer and I was really hung up about that because I was like, I felt my internalized ableism, felt guilty of… for asking for help from other people. As I’ve gone a little bit older I’ve actually said, well, actually all relationships have an element of care.
So, how do we de-stigmatize? How can we, ensure that, you know, we don’t have these harmful tropes and, and narratives play out, in the dating world? Because they do have a significant impact.
Hannah: They definitely do, and I think it’s a really good point because when it comes to the whole carer thing, at some point, all of us will need some level of care. You know, we might get an unpleasant illness, we might have an accident. Whether or not we become disabled by that, we are probably gonna need our loved one to do something for us, even if we just, you know, get a vomiting bug.
You might need to hold your girlfriend’s hair back while she pukes you know, like all of us are gonna [00:21:00] need a bit of care in some way or attention, even if it’s just from a hangover. So I think, it’s okay to have care within a relationship. It’s just gotta be something that you navigate together as a partnership.
And that is gonna be different for every single partnership, in terms of what each person wants. And you know, as disabled people, we are not similar. What I want from a partner might be very different to what you want from a partner, Sam. And that’s completely legit because we’re different people and our partners will, well hopefully be different people.
Um, and so I think, you know, we need to kind of take that into account. And I think like when it comes to how we kind of de-stigmatize all of this, it’s part of a far bigger narrative, isn’t it? Out with dating specifically, I think this comes down to the fact that as a society, we still have this perception that disabled people are not as capable, are not able to do X, Y, and Z.
Um, and there are a lot of really harmful narratives that go along with that. And there is so much amazing work going on from, you know, incredible [00:22:00] influences through to authors, through to TV presenters and you know, the rest of Sam’s CV.
Sophie: And Hannah, when people assume that your partner is your carer, because this is something you’ve spoken about on Instagram, how do you tackle this? And for listeners out there that may be, you know, in similar situations, what advice would you give them to, handle that?
Hannah: This is a challenge that a few of us face. I think it’s slightly worse for those of us who have partners of the same gender, um, because my partner is a similar age to me and female. And often when you see a woman in a wheelchair accompanied by a woman of the same age, they may well be disabled person and their PA and their carer, in our case, she’s my girlfriend. Um, but the assumptions are still made so you can kind of see where it comes from. And I know that I’ve been to certain events where people have spoken to her so much as my carer that when, you know, she then leans down and holds my hand or gives me a kiss, you can almost see them filling in safeguarding paperwork. Like they’re just kinda outraged and slightly worried [00:23:00] that they should be doing something to save that poor, disabled person. I’m like, I’m having a great time. She’s really hot. Um, I tend to practice little comebacks in the mirror ahead of time because I’m not very witty. Um, So I tend to like, think, like what I’m gonna say beforehand or very like audibly call my partner darling or sweetie, um, which he probably wouldn’t call your carer.
Um, and like sometimes I just play up to it. Like if I have somebody just staring at us who won’t stop, that’s when I’m gonna try and snog my girlfriend.
Um, and um, if that makes them feel uncomfortable, then that’s on them, isn’t it?
Sophie: I love the advice of practicing in the mirror.
Sam: I think it, it goes much, much deeper than just a surface level. Of, you know, normalizing disabled couples. But you also touched upon, um, intersectionality and the importance of that and a lot of feedback that I get from working with my community is that, you know, we, we often see disabled people as one dimensional, and our disability [00:24:00] identity is the overarching identity. Um, how has your intersectional identities like impacted you know, your sense of your own relationship with yourself and then with others?
Hannah: So I think you know that Infantilization point is really important, isn’t it? Because I have noticed that since I became disabled. It’s interesting having had the kind of non-disabled experience and having been visibly non-disabled, suddenly become visibly disabled. You do really pick up on the differences in the way people approach you.
And I do get that in Infantilization a lot though. Um, You know, I’ve gotta be honest. Having doctor in front of your name does help. And I think it’s really important that I recognise that privilege. Um, because you know, when I got my, I got my A D H D diagnosis only about two, three years ago, and one of my good friends who I know only meant well by it went, so let me get this straight Hannah, you are a wheelchair using, bisexual, neurodivergent woman. [00:25:00] Um, did you just run out… did you just need another characteristic? Like what was going on there? And it felt, and she was just like, is this just another thing for you? Um, and it does feel like that. It’s kinda like, here’s a shopping list of everything that makes me quirky.
Um, people are scared of saying the wrong thing, asking the wrong questions, getting it wrong. And whilst the owner shouldn’t be on every disabled person to educate, if we do feel able to, if we do feel comfortable to, and we are given a platform to do so, I’m happy to take that.
I’m happy to kind of sit there going, you know what? Ask the question. I will correct you. I will educate you. This is your opportunity so you don’t get it wrong for all the other disabled people you meet. Um, so I try and use my intersectionality and all of these different characteristics I have to prove to the world that we’re not a homogenous group. Yeah, I’m hyper aware that we have a society that does still put us all into a little box over here. A box that isn’t generally wheelchair accessible and goes right: that’s you, that’s the 16 million of you that are [00:26:00] disabled. Now, if you just sit there, we’ll get on with the hard work, yeah. And trying to challenge that and push back on that, I think is really important when you can.
Um, but it does feel a bit exhausting, um, having all of these different characteristics sometimes because also there’s a lot of letters involved. Right. I’ve got EDS, ADHD, I’m LGBTQ, mean acronym bingo over here.
Sam: we were, we were actually. We were talking about AI and the importance of technology earlier on in this show, and obviously online dating apps you mentioned that you use Bumble earlier. I absolutely hate them, but there’s a, there’s a kind of seriousness about it because a lot of these platforms use algorithms and I actually sat before today’s show and I thought, which dating app that has an advertisement on TV or radio. I’ve never really seen a disabled representation there. So I think that’s, you know, like a real, real big flag for me if we’re not even visible on these data apps. But it also reminded me of an episode of um, ‘How to Get Away [00:27:00] With Murder’ and a wheelchair user was suing an app because he said that it discriminated against him because of his disability, and they, they got away with it because they ultimately said, you can’t force someone to fancy someone in a wheelchair.
But it was a really interesting talking point because actually, you know, I, I, I seem to attract a lot of men that their first thing are, I enjoy long hikes, and I’m like, good for you
Hannah: They bloody love a hike
Sam: They all love a hike. So, so, you know anyone who is, uh, looking at joining dating online dating sites, what would be your, your top tips, you know, to safeguard their mental health and also just to kind of navigate some of the major pitfalls that are still existing in on online, um, spaces?
Hannah: So I think first and foremost, yeah, apps do have a massive responsibility that they’re completely ignoring at the moment. And I think one of the challenges I know when I started dating as a visibly disabled person was you had, as you say, all of these apps that didn’t seem to have any disability [00:28:00] representation.
So I had to decide whether to be out about my disability in the same way I had to decide to be out about my sexuality. Um, but then I also, kind of found myself going, right, either I use these mainstream apps where disability almost doesn’t exist. Um, or I go for one of these kind of other apps, which is for disabled people, which I find equally problematic. I’ll be honest. I mean, I hate the phrase inter abled relationships. I just have a relationship. But I find the whole kinda like, here’s a dating app for disabled people so disabled people can meet disabled people.
I’m so like, I’m sorry, why do we have to narrow our pool to 23% of the population? As opposed to the rest of the world that gets to date anyone they bloody like? Like that, that doesn’t seem like a solution to me. That just seems like, again, putting us in a box. I think when it comes to apps, you have to decide what you’re comfortable with and what information you’re comfortable putting out there.
And it is really challenging. I made the conscious decision [00:29:00] to put… my first photo was me sitting in my wheelchair and I’m pretty sure it’s been a while. But, um, if you look back at it, I’m pretty sure my profile says something about, um, my legs don’t work very well, but I’m still able to kick an ass when necessary, or something like that.
Um, because I thought it was really important that I kind of went, yeah, look, I am visibly disabled. That is who I am, and if you don’t have time for that, then swipe away, I don’t have time for you. That is a decision I made. I think it’s important when navigating dating as a whole that we think about who we are and who we wanna be and whether we are happy with our own relationships to ourselves.
Because I think particularly disabled people, there is a lot of internalized ableism out there, and we are kind of constantly told from birth, you’re not gonna be able to do this, you probably can’t do that, you shouldn’t do this. And it’s very hard to undo that thinking. So I think before anyone starts dating on any format, you have to work out your [00:30:00] relationship with your own body because we need to be able to communicate what we’re comfortable with, what we’re not comfortable with. There shouldn’t, the onus shouldn’t be on us to educate, but to an extent, everybody needs to communicate their preferences in any kind of relationship, disability, or, no, I think there’s more of that for us because of the nature of who we are.
Um, and if you can’t sit there and say, actually, I don’t like doing this. I’m not comfortable doing this. If you don’t have that relationship and sexual literacy and fluency, whether or not you’re disabled, that’s a problem and this is why I spend so much time looking at like sexual education in the UK. A relationship should always augment who you are and your life.
It shouldn’t take it over. It shouldn’t be the one thing your life is based upon. And if you are looking for a relationship to kind of fix something you probably shouldn’t be going into a relationship at that point because you shouldn’t be relying on another person to fix you because you are perfect just as you [00:31:00] are.
She said spouting more cliches.
Sophie: Couldn’t agree more. Hannah, that’s brilliant. Thank you so much for your time today. That was a really good, brilliant interview. Lots of food for thought there in terms of relationships with others, but more importantly, like you just said, a relationship with ourselves. Before you go, we have a little thing going on where we ask our previous guest to ask our next guest a question.
So our previous guest, James Freeman, has asked you, have you had any crazy stories regarding your disability?
Hannah: Oh, um, oh, gosh, yeah, quite a few. Um, I decided, I mean, like, who hasn’t, let’s
Sam: We haven’t got all day my love.
Hanah: Right? Here’s the memoir. Um, no, I, so when I first got my wheelchair, I decided to take up wheelchair basketball, because I played a bit before as an non disabled person and loved it. Um, Unfortunately my condition EDS means I do dislocate things and I dislocate everything.
Um, so [00:32:00] yeah, throwing balls and that sort of stuff, often my like wrist would follow and just come out of joint. Um, and there was one, um, basketball match I was playing and it was quite a big and important match for a women’s team that was very new, and you only get so many points that you’re allowed on the court at any time, and each player has allotted so many points depending on their disability.
The more disabled you are, the fewer points you get, and you want as few points on the court as possible. Trying to explain wheelchair basketball in a second is really difficult, but yeah, so I had to stay on the court because I was the most disabled person on the team, and if I’d said, no, I can’t play anymore, then we had to forfeit the game. So I dislocate my wrist on a basketball court in the middle of a game, and I kind of went into full doctor mode and relocated it myself.
Hannah: strapped it up and insisted on continuing to play, um, which was incredibly stupid. And I haven’t played wheelchair basketball since because I injured myself quite badly.
Sam: Before we let you go, my darling, have you got a question for our next guest? But we’re [00:33:00] not going to tell you who the guest is beause it’s a bit like a russian roulette here. It can be anything, It can be off wall. You go for it.
Hannah: Okay, so I hate it when people refer to disability as a superpower. So if you could have any superpower, what would it be?
Sam: I love that question. I wanna answer already.
Sophie: No, wait.
Sam: All. Oh, Wait, oh, wait. Oh wait.
Sophie: Brilliant. Thank you so much Hannah.
Hannah: Thanks for having me, guys.
music transition
Sophie: Okay, so we are coming to the end of the episode, but before we go, there’s one more segment left and we are joined by a very special guest.
Matt: Oh
Sam: Oh, yeah.It’s car chat with Matt.I don’t, I can’t remember the last time when I sung, but I just,car chat with Matt. I think I liked one more than the previous one actually. I’m getting… I mean, I’m, getting better. I’m giving you the best of Samantha Renke right here.
Matt: felt that. It [00:34:00] felt like it was the best.
Sophie: I loved it. That’s right. If you didn’t hear, it’s Matt Lizzimore, our in-house car expert here to talk about all things cars. So Matt, how are you?
Matt: I’m good, thanks. How are you guys?
sophie-2: Good, thank you. What have you got for today?
Matt: Uh, today I’m talking about features that you might wanna look out for on your next car. So, uh, obviously. Some people might be new to the scheme or obviously you haven’t, uh, come around to looking for a car for a few years now.
So just gonna go through a few bits that might make your lives easier or just a bit more comfortable. So, uh, I’m just gonna jump straight in. Okay, go for it. So in it, number one on my list, heated seats. So this one, the reason I’m going through it first is because whenever I speak to people at The Big Event or whenever we have any Motability events, or even on social media, when people write in what they like about their cars. By far, the most often mentioned thing is heated seats.
Um, so I feel like people should know what they are. It’s pretty self-explanatory, but in case you’re unaware, you can press a button and it warms up your seat. It [00:35:00] warms the back and warms base.
Sam: I feel like I need to interject.
Matt: Go on Sam.
Sam: So, as someone who is always in a wheelchair, it feels like I’m always in a wheelchair.Um, sweaty bums are are not a pleasant thing, so I’m…
Matt: That’s true.
Sam:…I am confused by individuals that want to purposely give themselves a sweaty bum bum. Explain.
Matt: That’s a good point. Uh, so there’s, there’s two main benefits to this. Uh, one is the winter months when it’s very cold, ah, it just warms you up a bit quicker than… there you go
… the vents. So that’s a bonus. The other thing that, that people often mention is people who have sort of chronic pain, uh, particularly with joints, back pain, et c, they find it’s a big relief, uh, for their back pain, et c. So, There is that, which is a big bonus. Um, the flip side of that, the remedy to the sweaty bum as you mentioned, is, uh, some cars also now have ventilated seats as well.
Yes. Now that’s a bit more of me. I can’t deal with the heat. So ventilated seats are a dream. Uh, and that just basically blast the air conditioning through the seat itself to get a nice cool back. Oh, and cool bum
Sam: and, armpits as well. [00:36:00] ’cause I mean, there’s nothing worse is really? Loving it. What’s next?
Matt: Um, and I’ll tell you, and there’s a final bit to that, although this is a little bit rarer. There are some cars in which you can get massage seats. See if you’re feeling particularly boujee. You can get a little back in back massage.
Sam: We’re not on Elon Musk’s level.
Matt: Next up, number two, keyless entry. So this is getting more and more common, thankfully.
Um, and basically it means you can get in your car without actually getting the keys out and having to press a button. Now, if you’re like me and have lots of pockets or have put your keys somewhere in your bag,
Sam: Or just a man,
Matt: Yeah, just, yeah, exactly. Or, or if your keys are buried at the bottom of a bag or something like that, it’s a real pain in the bum.
But as long as you’re close enough to the car, there’s usually a button on the door handle that you can just nudge and the doors unlock . So it’s very handy if you are. And also some people just struggle with keys and having to actually press the button and you know, if you’ve not got that much dexterity.
Exactly. Exactly. Um, so that’s great. And the same for the car. You’ve not gotta try and. Fit a key into a slot that you can’t see and whatnot.
Sam-2: How safe is that? is it like a [00:37:00] thumb… is it, do you recognition like your phone where you do a thumb print or, I mean, are there people out there already going, I know how to scam that one. I mean, be honest with us.
Matt: So yeah, kind of. Um, so. It’s safe enough in that you have to be very close for the car for it to work. Okay. And, and the same with starting the car. You have to have the key in the car. If you try and press the start button when the key’s not in, it’ll say you haven’t got the key, get outta here.
Uh, so yeah, you do have to be close. There is an issue with people stealing cars by, essentially they, if you leave your car by your front door, there’s people who can sort of use some equipment to sort of jack the signal, boost it, and then use that to open a car.
Sam: Wow.
Matt: So that, that is a problem. It’s not. As much of an issue on brand new cars, but it is still, it is a bit of a problem.Uh, but there’s lots of ways around that. A just don’t leave your keys by your front door, but b, you can buy, uh, boxes that, um, I forget what the technical terminology is, but there’s boxes to put your keys in that shield the signal.
Sam: Nice.
Matt: So that’s quite a nice, straightforward, Um, next one, parking cameras. parking cameras [00:38:00] are a blessing. Obviously parking sensors are helpful as well, and an awful lot of cars now come with rear sensors as standard, which is good. Um, but a parking camera is just a nice added extra. So, uh, if you’re like me and you sort of struggle to…
Sam: yes
Matt:…turn your head and neck to look behind you, it’s much easier to look at a screen and be able to see everything that’s going on.
Sam: Yes. Yeah, that’s really interesting. ’cause before I moved to London, I did actually go to a centre to look at whether I could drive or not.
Matt:…Mm-hmm.
Sam: And I had to do some of the, you know, head turning motions. Because of my spinal fusion, I’ve got quite good flex towards my left, but I’ve got limited to my right and I think, I mean, we’re talking over 12 years ago now, so it’s really nice to know that, you know, the technology is advanced so that I won’t…
You know, that won’t be a hindrance anymore. That won’t be something that know, stop me to drive. ’cause as we know it’s not long. Now I’m gonna start doing the, vroom vroom
Sophie: exciting
Sam: That’s how a car, that’s a car, voom voom voom. That’s what I sound like. Beep, beep.
matt: absolutely as you said, that is, it is a fantastic help for people with sort of slightly limited range of movement. Um, and on top of the reversing camera, there are now cars that have a 360 degree camera, and you kind of get this clever, almost top down view, so it looks like as if you’re looking down from above the car and you can see all around it.
Sam: That’s, and it’s, it’s that too far. step. Lost me. You’ve lost me on that one.
Matt: But I’ll you what is is useful for. It’s useful for knowing that you’ve parked in the bay within the lines. If nothing else, it’s really nice for lining your car up into space. Uh, but yeah, the reversing cameras are enough for Uh, so after that we are looking at powered tailgates. So a what one? A powered tailgate.
So effectively the boot, a powered boot, if you
Sam-2: just say boot, then
Matt: boot. Tailgates become the, become the, the, oh, the fashionable term.
Sam-2: Oh,please.
Matt: So a powered boot. Uh, so basically what is a powered boot? Uh, it just sort of opens itself effectively. So you would press a button on a key or. Even better. You can, some of them, you just wave your foot… under the rear bumper or your hand under the rear bumper is often easier if you’re in a wheelchair. Uh, and then the boot opens and lifts itself
Sam: really great when you’re trying to dispose of that body. You know?
Matt: exactly who
sophie: I was gonna say, it’s really good when you got shopping.
Sam: We are not the same person. We, we on a different level.
Matt: Absolutely. Hands full of shopping or, or, a body that you want to dispose of, you can wave under the car and boot opens for you. Uh, and the other reason that’s helpful is some boots, particularly if you need a bigger car or you’ve got an SUV, the boot is actually really quite high when it’s open. Uh, and if you’re in a wheelchair, it’s gonna be actually quite, or even if you’re just a bit short, it’s gonna be quite difficult for a lot of people to actually reach the boot to pull it down.
And often that requires a lot of strength as well.
Mm-hmm.
Which not everyone has. Um, so it, it’s, it’s quite nice then just to be able to again, just wave under the car and have the boot close itself. You can be on your merry way. Next up, adaptive cruise control. Uh, annoyingly car manufacturers tend to put their own name on this, so it’s not often a universal term.
Sometimes it’s things like smart cruise control or whatever. Um, so that is a little bit [00:41:00] annoying. But what it’s is there is cruise control, right? Where you set a speed of your car and your car will carry on at that speed. So you’re on a motorway. I wanna do 70. You set 70 and your car goes at that speed.
Adaptive cruise control. Basically has a bunch of sensors in the car that can detect the car in front of you. And what it will do is, uh, change the speed of your car to match that of the car in front so you maintain a safe distance. So it’s a bit less faff than, ’cause it’s very rare these days on a motorway where you sit at a constant speed without cars slowing down and you find yourself turning the cruise control off and on and off and on.
It’s a real faf. So this, if it’s, there’s just a bit of variance. It just, Takes the fuss out of having to turn it off and on. It will slow down. And with a lot of newer cars, uh, particularly auto, so automatic cars and electric cars, they often have a feature where it will also creep along in stop start traffic, which is a real dream.
’cause otherwise you’re sort of doing a little dance on the pedals and it gets a bit of tiring. So it will sort of stop and start and keep moving with the flow of traffic. And then once everything gets up to speed, your car will do that and, and maintain a safe distance, to the car in front. So that just takes a lot of the…
It takes a bit of the energy out of doing longer, more stressful journeys, if you like.
Sam-2: not gonna lie, I’m thinking who I’d bump off first. I wasn’t really listening. just making a top 10 list in my brain. Sorry. You have one more? Yeah.
Matt: If you wanna stick on that, that theme, the another one is quite useful is the, uh, it’s uh, a very, so you can basically get cars where you can change the height of the boot floor.
Uh, and the reason that’s useful is some cars. The floor is actually quite, you have a lip and then the floor is quite a lot lower and it’s then actually quite difficult to, for some people to get stuff out ’cause you’ve got lift up out over a high boot lip. Now while you want, you do want sometimes to have that extra boot space.
A lot of the time you’re not filling your boot entirely and it’s easier if it’s just in line with the boot lip and you can almost sort of drag stuff
Sam: you’ve not you’ve seen my list yet. I could quite happily fill that space. It might make it a bit easier for you to get that. would be good because I be an avid car booter. So I used to always see car [00:43:00] boots growing up and I know that they are very, particularly in the north, they are very, very popular. So you could just cram a load more stuff to sell, couldn’t you?
matt: That’s it. There you go. More. Perfect. Uh, next up, electric seat adjustment.
Now one of the things some people find difficult is manually adjusting your seat. Uh, particularly because it often takes a lot of leg strength to move a chair backwards and forwards. And obviously, you know, if you don’t have that well, that’s not an option for you. Then moving your seat is incredibly difficult.
Um, so a lot of cars now will have a bunch of buttons by the side where you can electronically adjust height, move forwards, backwards, lumbar support, all of that kind of stuff, which is great. And often with those, the added bonus, is that they have a memory function where you can actually save settings. So you can save sort of 1, 2, 3, 4 settings.
So if you share your car with someone else, it’s brilliant. You’ve not gotta spend ages getting comfortable, which journey, you can just press number one or number two, and then the car will automatically shift to how it was saved previously. So that’s a dream if you share your car with someone who doesn’t quite have the same proportions as you
Sam-2: What is the gadget of the week? ’cause this is my favorite [00:44:00] part because let’s face it, they’re normally useless, but we can have,we can have a good giggle anyway
Matt: I’ve got right, I’ve also got a bonus one this week as well. Joleen, our producer’s probably gonna throw something at me ’cause I already talked for too long and now I’m adding in a bonus one. But first up, Cool box. Cool box for the car. Now I’m someone who likes a good snack on a long journey. I like a snack, I like a cold drink.
I can’t, I can’t deal with room temperature drinks. Of course, I can’t physically can’t drink them, right? I no one does. I want my drink to be as cold as it can possibly be without having to chew through a block of ice, basically. So, so you can basically buy a cool box, but you can plug into the little 12 volt thing in the car, keeps all your stuff cool.
And obviously there are more practical uses for that. Obviously some people need to keep certain medicines cold and insulin and uh, are you thinking about keeping… you can’t fit a body in it, right?
Sam: I’m thinking just parts.
matt: I was thinking more along the lines of snacks, medication, foods and whatnot for long journeys. Who knows?
Baby breast milk. Baby milk. Yeah. Yeah. Baby milk, that kind of thing. Right. Uh,[00:45:00] my bonus one, Sam, which I think you’ll enjoy a bit more, or maybe not actually because it doesn’t involve disposing of dead body. No,
Matt: Right? I saw one the other day and I dunno, anyone who’s actually bought this. But I feel like it’s, it’d be a fantastic idea.Uh, I, I saw a set that you can sort of clip onto the vents in your car and it’s basically something to hold your fries and dip.
sophie: Oh,
matt: you go for a drive-through, fries in the holder, dip in the holder, and you can just do a little dip and munch you drive. Where
sophie: where do I get that from?
matt: Amazon. Okay. For, and probably other stores as well. I’m sure other online my retailers are available.
Sam: but don’t, but don’t, they don’t already do that. So, you know, when you get your burger, it’s got a hole in the middle for you put the drink with a straw and it opens up and you put your fries in your burger. Like that’s, so McDonald’s is already ahead of the game. There are all the burger places available
matt: The only downside to this is I don’t, I don’t want people getting ketchup and barbecue sauce on my car, but hey, so long as you’re, as long as you’re careful, what a way to snack on the go. Barbecue? Curry sauce?
sophie: Sweet and sour?
Sam-2: Oh, no
matt-2: Curry’s my go-to.
Sam-2: You’ve gone down in my, my, my expectation,
sophie: Matt. Thank you very much. I’d just like to mention as well welcome some of those, um, features that you mentioned earlier. We do talk about them in the latest issue, don’t we? We do the August issue of Lifestyle Magazine, so yeah, pick that up if you haven’t read that already. But thank you very much, Matt. A pleasure as always.
matt: Thanks very much for having me.
Outro
sophie: Thank you. And that’s it of this episode of The Mobility Lifestyle Pod. Thanks to our guest, Hannah Barham-Brown and Matt Lizzimore.
Thanks to our producer, Joleen Goffin at Rethink Audio and our editorial assistant Lucie Rhodes at Wonderly.
Sam: if you like this episode, follow us. Tell all your friends and please leave a review. If you want to tell us what you thought or if there’s something you’d like to hear, come and say hello on our Instagram.
For some behind the scenes content, follow us on TikTok and watch the full video on YouTube. You can find us on Motability_ Lifestyle_ mag. Finally, if you want more information about [00:47:00] Motability Scheme, go to motability.co.uk. Or if you want to learn more about Motability the charity, visit motability.org.uk. And that’s it everybody.
I have been Samantha Renke.
sophie: And I’m Sophie-Marie Odum. See you in two weeks.
Sam: Bye-bye.
